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Question/s to null and low sec players.

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Darth Tickles Viziam Amarr Empire 355	Posted - 2012.05.10 02:17:00 - [1] - Quote Doctor Ungabungas wrote: What about CCP just works to get newbies into 0.0 - everyone who is in high sec now is a lost cause, the attitude is set in place and no game play changes will do anything but convince them that their attitude is right. Get new players out into 0.0 and get them mining, missioning and doing all the same old stuff BEFORE the attitude can set in and they'll stay out there because once you're used to living in 0.0, empire seems very bland. Correct.
Darth Tickles Viziam Amarr Empire 355	Posted - 2012.05.10 02:34:00 - [2] - Quote You probably have to keep repeating that argument because it is so blatantly awful. Again, if you think you're going to go take on lowsec all by yourself in your mission drake, you've already failed the transition. If getting blown up at your first gate doesn't teach you that lesson and instead makes you give up never to try again, then you were doomed anyway. I do find it absolutely ball-busting hilarious that the people who have stuck themselves in hisec thing they are in any way qualified to tell people who have made the transition what needs to change.
Darth Tickles Viziam Amarr Empire 357	Posted - 2012.05.10 02:46:00 - [3] - Quote Obviously something needs to change about the new player experience in hisec , where this aversion to risk is either inculcated or violently rejected in some unnecessary battle for the new players' soul. I would actually have np with there being some pretty high-end incentives in hisec for people who work together and compete against others. It can't be higher than the avreage for null/low/whs, but it doesn't have to be at all abysmal. Basically, if you can manage to get a player to get blown up willingly and blow somebody else up, you've pretty much got them hooked for life. I don't have enough fingers or toes to count the number of my membership's real life friends from my old corp that we would take out in rifters, get them to tackle some red that we all blew up, then get him blown up, and then have them become hooked. It's really that simple; it's just unfortunate that not everyone has a real life friend to take them out for a tour.
Darth Tickles Viziam Amarr Empire 357	Posted - 2012.05.10 02:56:00 - [4] - Quote Bane Necran wrote: They don't call them nullbears for nothing. What is there to adapt to? See stranger in local - warp to safety. The hardest thing about living in 0.0 is getting there. After you're there, it's even safer than hisec. Ignoring the classic misconceptions and falsehoods, getting there is actually the easiest part. You just set your med clone and kill yourself. Again, you really have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, and unless you want to act as a caricature for us to use as examples, I suggest you just stop.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 359	Posted - 2012.05.10 03:10:00 - [5] - Quote Bane Necran wrote: Sorry to interrupt all your sweeping generalizations about hisec people you never interact with. Your flawed thinking and flawed assumptions have failed to get people to leave hisec time and time again already, but please, go on. Please, point some of this flawed thinking and assuming out. I also find it hilarious that apparently my ideas have not only already been implemented by CCP without my knowledge, but apparently have also already failed. Talk about a roller coaster ride of emotions from that revelation. If you want to demonstrate for us the thinking of someone who has never left hisec, then do so by all means. But please stfu about everything past that first lowsec gate because you obviously have no ******* clue at all (edit: again, unless you want to act as a caricature for hilarious misconceptions and falsehoods about the world beyond hisec).
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 359	Posted - 2012.05.10 03:15:00 - [6] - Quote The real shame is that I'm sure these guys spout these utterly uninformed falsehoods at all kinds of new people in venues where we don't have the option of slapping them down hilariously. Probably one of the best things you could do is forcefully biomass everyone who sits in npc corp chat and terrible hisec corps vomiting up dagaming bullshit about topics they know nothing of, thereby perpetuating these misconceptions and perverting the development process of new players.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 359	Posted - 2012.05.10 03:22:00 - [7] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: This is true, another good justification to ban NPC corps is to stop these trashlords from poisoning the rookie corp chat well with tales of the null/lowsec boogie man. Yup, I am quite serious about it being a real problem. Unfortunately my solution is less serious. My guess is any "kickout" system for npc corps would end up just being a big mess, and easily circumventable by those sad souls who like to be big fish in a little pond.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 361	Posted - 2012.05.10 04:17:00 - [8] - Quote Markus Reese wrote: The whole sov system needs to be made more complex, involved and rewarding. The biggest deterrent to pve-ers from null is that it is straight up pvp. If you are not at war, you are farming npcs or roaming. At war, CTA CTA CTA. If there was more of a developmental structure to nullsec, things that small groups of pve could roam, or some sort of basis that would get miners and pvers to want to come out to null, the rest would follow. It all starts with getting them out. Then a few corp reimbursed cheaper ship, after that, they want to pvp. Farms and fields; conceptually this is where CCP wants to go. Groups in space doing pve, small "pirate" gangs coming to get them, small fleets defending the pve groups from the pirate gangs, bigger fleets out hunting the defence gangs, so on and so forth. Right now nullsec pve is too much "me and my alt in this anom, dock up when reds come by". There has to be an incentive for being in space working together and an incentive to defend that space from gangs that come by. Also small scale nullsec industry desperately needs a boost. CCP knows all this. It's just a matter of practical implementation.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 361	Posted - 2012.05.10 04:24:00 - [9] - Quote Nostradamouse Riraille wrote: But sincerely... But sincerely, again, no, you're absolutely and unequivocally wrong. If your problem with leaving hisec is that you can't physically enter the space by yourself to go do....who knows what, then you've already lost. Not mentioning that it is actually farcically easy to navigate low and even null by yourself with the proper ships, when you actually have a reason to. "I can't do this by myself without any thought to preparing or organizing. Therefore something is wrong with it, not me". No, something is wrong with you. The fact that this false mentality is so widespread just shows how busted the transitioning is in this game. The fact that so many people get to a point where this is their "low/null experience" is just so unbelievably dysfunctional from a game design pov..
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 362	Posted - 2012.05.10 05:17:00 - [10] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: The thing that would accomplish this is to actually limit the resources. Seriously: roid belts being mined out of existence, and agents running out of work and a mission hub becomes too filled up. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but i really do believe in a baseline income for hyper-casual and beginner players, a spaceship social safety net if you will. I'd rather see augmented payouts for people that begin to engage in the cooperative and competitive behavior they'll need to survive outside of hisec. Beyond the payout issue, incursions are actually a great feature for hisec. All it needs is something that's even better than incursion payouts, but requires you to "lay claims" as an organization, which opens you up to competition (pvp). From there the transition for a new pilot to a revitalized lowsec, better nullsec, or seemingly "just fine right now" whs is perfectly natural. Again, I have endless sympathy for people who finish getting the hang of the game from level 4s, then are basically left standing there with their ** in their hands. We lose far too many people that would be contributing members of this exciting universe had they only been presented with a better learning curve. Hell, I wouldn't even care if hisec became vastly more populated as long as players were cooperating and competing, which is what creates and maintains the sense of excitement for EVERYONE in the game. Otherwise it's just **** space pixels with terrible content.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 362	Posted - 2012.05.10 05:33:00 - [11] - Quote Yup, you really can't stress enough how utterly busted the npe is.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 362	Posted - 2012.05.10 05:35:00 - [12] - Quote new player experience
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 362	Posted - 2012.05.10 05:45:00 - [13] - Quote GoatChops wrote: If you blow up a bear that enters low sec you can either be a prick and troll the sh*t out of him for tears or you can be a bro and strike a friendly convo with him. He'll be a lot less butt hurt about his loss and be more likely to come back for another look. That's pretty much what happened to me way back when. I took the loss fairly well and all because old mate that blew me up was friendly in local after the fact. Even gave me a few pointers for my fit and what to do different next time. That's what it has come down to for a long time now: this "moment of truth" horseshit where you're either "good enough" for the cool kids club or forever relegated to level 4s (more likely you'll just quit). It is a painfully stupid system.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 362	Posted - 2012.05.10 06:02:00 - [14] - Quote GoatChops wrote: aahhh I can't tell if you agreed with my point or disagreed. But yeah I think the community cause (and could prevent) this "relegation" to level 4s alot more then most people realise. First impressions count and all that... I'm agreeing. However, I think it's CCP's fault for creating this all or nothing "moment of truth" to test if you're "cool enough" to play Eve, though I'm sure that wasn't their deliberate intent. CCP isn't responsible for every action of every player, but it is absolutely responsible for steering the common situations that players find themselves in. I don't think some kind of contrived "welcome train" at every lowsec entrance is any better than the current groups we have "welcoming" newbies to lowsec right now. I don't think your opinion on the topic is wrong, I think the entire topic is wrong and the situation shouldn't be the usual path for new players.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 367	Posted - 2012.05.10 14:41:00 - [15] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Basically, what's in for people without a plethora of cyno alts, scouts, are not directors nothing? Just PvP. Most of your post is ridiculous exaggeration captured by this. However, you raise a couple of good points worth discussing. First, low-level nullsec industry is **. You are absolutely correct. It needs to be fixed Second, the ridiculous exaggeration about "having to wake up at 5am to shoot pos" aside, there are playstyle limits to nullsec, like there are to any sec area. If you can only play sporadically for 30 minute periods, then nullsec is not for you, neither are whs and even lowsec might be a stretch. However, as repeated multiple times throughout this thread, that's fine, nobody gives a about you. People who don't have the time for anything but the hypercasual hisec option will always have that option. CCP has never hinted at anything to the contrary, nor do 99% of the participants in these discussions. If you are a committed hisec player who only has the time to tool around with a bit of industry or run a mission or two once or twice a week, then good for you, nobody gives a ** about you and you are absolutely irrelevant to the issue of the new player experience and the transition through playstyles.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 367	Posted - 2012.05.10 14:45:00 - [16] - Quote Dragonx wrote: I've recently come back to EVE and find myself to be one of those "stuck" in high-sec for whatever irrational reasons. Sure, I can and do nip out across 0.0, buy and sell, often in a pod for convinience. It's not difficult. I'd love to be living there as I did 9 years ago but the problem is, as a number of people have pointed out, it's not "inviting." More importantly, the people there aren't inviting - literally. If I, with xSP, resources and game know-how cannot quickly find a corp to join them in 0.0, I can't imagine how much of a barrier there is for all the new and high-sec established people to even fathom moving there Yup, I couldn't agree more. Again, it's this idea of "transitions". There is little in hisec that prepares you, or in your case warms you back up, for the jump out of hisec. It is a massive leap, and you could very well land in a lot of terrible places and/or organizations.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 367	Posted - 2012.05.10 15:13:00 - [17] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Too bad the playerbase has changed over the years and now those with little time for pixels are a vast majority. The game has to deal with it or... Link? That's a pretty crucial claim. I would like to see some proof that most players actually can't play outside of hisec because of time constraints. Personally I think you're full of ****.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 367	Posted - 2012.05.10 15:15:00 - [18] - Quote Structured wrote: As a carebear, I have an idea: Leave us the ** alone :'). We like it here in highsec, it's how we like to play the game, and I seriously don't care if you think it should be played ANY other way, mm'kay? ^^ <3 - If CCP nerfed everything and made eve unplayable for the casual carebear it wouldn't make me go down the pipe to 0.0, i'd just quit with a big nice middle finger raised to all those 0.0 crybabies that want me to play "their way". I tried 0.0, I tried lowsec, and I like it MOAR in Highsec, just accept the fact that not everyone likes it down in 0.0 ^^. Long live carebears =), now quit whining and get cooking, it's almost dinner time =D And again, for the tenth time, nobody gives a ** about you, and nobody is going to force you into null or out of the game.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 367	Posted - 2012.05.10 15:23:00 - [19] - Quote Structured wrote: Pretty much looks like what you're always trying to do, and you're full of lies my mom caaaares about me <3 =) Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: I also think you are full of the same matter, nor I care to be "relevant" to 0.0 overlords in never ending need of new muppets to die for them while they plot their grand plans for territory expansion and moons milking. The game is how the fuk I* want and pay for, not how some stupid unknown wants, who pretends to dictate who is playing RIGHT or WRONG in a sandbox. EDIT I played too many games where self entitled loud elite ret4ards hammered the developers balls till they made the game they wanted and then the MMO tanked. Because all was left were just them and their forum wh0ring. Leave EvE alone, it's FINE as is. For the 11th time, nobody is after the hypercasual playstyle. It's great that gamers have the option to play from 30 minutes to 30 hours a week, depending on their personal circumstances, and nobody anywhere has ever suggested this should change. Please show where your fundamental ability to play the game casually in hisec is under threat.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 367	Posted - 2012.05.10 15:47:00 - [20] - Quote Onictus wrote: Not sure where you went, but there are plenty of stations in null....too many if you are busy doing the evicting. My guess is it's a general rant about low-level industry in nullsec, which is a huge problem. More slots would fix the problem a lot better than more stations.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 367	Posted - 2012.05.10 15:52:00 - [21] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Please show where EvE is wrong as it is now. I have. To summarize, you have a huge range of player-driven content that people are failing to access because of ultimately minor failures in the new player experience and gameplay transitions. Whether fixing these issues would lead to 100s of Ks more subs is obviously open to debate, but it is a reasonable premise that less barriers to potential greater enjoyment will lead to more subs and better word-of-mouth advertising. You're welcome to disagree. You came into this thread with the attitude that evil nullsec tyrants are forcing CCP to destroy hisec so they have more fodder-peons to toy with. This is a farcically asinine view of the debate generally and this thread specifically, and is simply a product of your own imagination to justify your indulgence in self-righteous forum indignation.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 367	Posted - 2012.05.10 16:21:00 - [22] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: I am all for making newbie content teaching stuff including 0.0 but then there's always the 0.0 sperglords who come in threads and demand the game is turned into their kingdom. To those, a well deserved STFU. That's great. Unfortunately your misinformed ranting went far beyond that, but if you want to backpedal to this point, then I agree with you completely. In the future I would suggest you don't waste your time responding to extremist ranting with your own equally extremist sperging, but it's ultimately your prerogative.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 368	Posted - 2012.05.10 17:21:00 - [23] - Quote All good stuff. Thanks for contributing.
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 396	Posted - 2012.05.12 01:07:00 - [24] - Quote I re-engineered a nullsec corp and geared it towards the casual nullsec player. It is perfectly possible to play in nullsec casually, but only in "eve terms" casually. It does take a certain block of time to even get at fights in nullsec, or to really get sorted and get cooking in some isk generation. I'd say 1-2 2 hour blocks per week is the bare minimum to really enjoy the nullsec experience. There are still many players in my old corp who play this much and are great contributors to the corp and alliance. Anything less than that, I think you're better off elsewhere, I imagine WHs are similar.

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